Drag n' Drop Samples Between Plugin and DAW

alexs1

This feature has more to do with the sampler potential of Mobius, but it'd be very nice to have the ability to drag n' drop Mobius audio loops (however many there are recorded per track), and potentially their layers, into your DAW from the plugin. The idea is you could quickly drag n' drop a Mobius loop into your DAW for some editing, and then be able to seamlessly drop it back into the plugin to reload/overwrite the sample in Mobius with the new changes, for example. Another more fringe scenario would be to begin with a sample in your DAW first, then be able to drag it into an empty track to use as a master loop. Of course, in that case, it's up to the user to choose a sample that cycles well as a loop.

Currently, the most efficient way (that I know of) to get the loops you've recorded live from Mobius into your DAW is either by recording the plugin output ports directly during playback, or the roundabout way of importing/exporting them into your DAW from wherever your samples are saved. If you wanted to make edits and get it back into Mobius, that's a whole other process. Drag n' drop would circumvent these issues by providing a smoother bridge for editing and enhancing the sampler-ness capability of Mobius.

jeff

That's interesting. What drag-and-drop essentially is is a message to the application that says "something is dropping a file with this path". The host doesn't know where that file came from or what it necessarily is, it would have to decide based on the file extension or maybe by reading a little bit of it whether it wants it or not.

So from Mobius' perspective, I would have to first save the loop into a temporary file, then send a message with that file name over to the host. Whether the host responds or not is up to the host.

Going the other direction also depends on the host to package up a track as a file and send me the file name, again this all depends on what the host allows.

I'll definitely explore this with a few hosts, but there are lot of things outside of my control here.

jeff

I should add that it IS possible to drag and drop audio files from a file browser INTO Mobius. I haven't tested this in awhile, but it was working. Select the file you want in the file browser then drop it into either the main area of the display OR over a particular loop in the loop stack in the track strips.

If you drop over the main display, it will try to find the first empty loop in the first track that has an empty loop. If the first track is full, it moves onto the next one. If you drag onto the loop stack, it will try to put it in that specific track/loop.

I did a little reading, and most hosts allow you to drag files from a file browser into the DAW, but they can't magically transfer non-file audio from one app to another (well, unless both apps were from the same company and they use something hidden). So for Mobius, you would first have to use the File->Save Loop or Save Project to create the files. Then you can drag them from the file browser into the DAW. Then save the file in the DAW, and drag it back from the file browser into Mobius.

alexs1

jeff

jeff So for Mobius, you would first have to use the File->Save Loop or Save Project to create the files. Then you can drag them from the file browser into the DAW. Then save the file in the DAW, and drag it back from the file browser into Mobius.

I don't know too much about this, but maybe there could be an option in Mobius to bypass the first step, "File->Save Loop/Project," by having Mobius automatically save the loop/layers after they are recorded. Then, once the files are created in Mobius, you could drag them directly from the UI with a shortcut of their file browser path, enabling you to drop it into the DAW (step 2) without needing to open up a separate file browser instance.

As for going the other way, if the host allows file browser->DAW drop, I would guess it also allows the reverse. For example, in FL, if you open the editor window for an audio sample in the channel rack, you can left-click drag n' drop it from the DAW into a folder, desktop, or most notably, plugins that allow it, including Mobius. I can confirm it works to drag an audio sample directly from within FL into Mobius (VST), which of course eliminates the need to do it from a file browser process. Not sure if this is a perk of FL or if most hosts already have that ability.

Another idea came to mind that maybe you could change the directory for samples in Mobius to a folder that the DAW scans, and then import directly from the sample browser in the DAW. After making some edits, you could save/overwrite the original file, which would update both in the DAW library and refresh the sample on the Mobius track. That one feels a little less seamless than the first way, though.

Anyway, maybe one of these approaches could work out based on your explanation?

jeff

Interesting thoughts. I'm somewhat limited by what Juce supports for cross-platform DnD. It's possible for Mobius to initiate a drag of a file into another application, but the file has to already exist. Every DAW is different, but I imagine a lot of them that have a "session" concept tend to keep what you see on screen in files all the time. Kind of like how "auto save" works in a word processor, you're basically editing a file and then saving it after every edit, or once every few seconds.

Mobius is different than a DAW in that for most people, the things you do in it are spontaneous and temporary, and everything it does has to happen in real time without interfering with a live performance. Saving files takes time and while the save is happening the system has to be in a state of rest, or at least prevent further "edits" from happening. For example, you've got feedback turned down so every loop pass is generating a new layer, and in theory Mobius is saving a file every time a layer is created. Now do a Reset or Undo, those have to wait until the last file save is complete before they can throw the layer memory away. It's certainly possible, but complicated to get the coordination right so it doesn't cause audio glitches or prevent you from making lots of quick changes. And of course not everyone is going to want to pay the price in time and disk for constant file writing so it would have to be an option.

Something that would be easier would be to provide a function that can do periodic manual checkpoints of the loop memory, sort of like Quick Save but for entire projects rather than just individual loops. You would have to request that with a MIDI binding or something so that you know when it is happening and can expect the system to be frozen for a little while. Once you do that, then it's just a simple DnD of an existing file from one app to another.

Another option would be to do the file save at the moment you start the DnD operation in Mobius by clicking and holding over a loop in the loop stack. Since you're using the mouse at this point, you're probably not mid-performance so it can take a break and save things without disruption.

alexs1

jeff Saving files takes time and while the save is happening the system has to be in a state of rest, or at least prevent further "edits" from happening.

Actually, this is how I pictured it working; edits would take place after all live loops are stopped completely. Once in a state of standstill, you could DnD the sample into your DAW, do something like normalize or de-noise it, for example, and then drag it back into Mobius to overwrite the resting loop(s) before re-initiating playback. I can't really think of any situation where I'd want to do a DnD edit on the fly while loops are going, namely for the reasons you mentioned: audio artifacts and tax on CPU—it's more for the satisfaction of enhancing samples before setting them in sequence again to play with.

Another option would be to do the file save at the moment you start the DnD operation in Mobius by clicking and holding over a loop in the loop stack. Since you're using the mouse at this point, you're probably not mid-performance so it can take a break and save things without disruption.

This seems like an intuitive approach, seeing as you can also have the DnD operation disabled while in a performance state in case you do happen to be using a mouse or whatever. As far as that is concerned, (and I think I proposed this on the previous forum/may start another thread on here just for the books) integrating some kind of stop function and accompanying state of rest where things like DnD can happen would be a handy addition in future builds. I did write a "Stop Button" script that keeps the loops suspended (paused) at the start of their cycle, but one that's built-in would definitely make things easier in that regard, especially if it also responds to basic transport (Stop/Start), something which is possible now if you bind both the host playback and script to the same trigger, but again, not as clean as a dedicated function/state.

I wouldn't worry too much about adding any of this at the moment. It might 'click' better when you start to issue out the Save Project improvements, anyway. In any case, thanks for running with it!

jeff

I'd should add that this is related to some work I've been doing around the Project concept. Projects are pretty crude right now, it just sprays a bunch of cryptically named files onto disk and then forgets about them. I'd like projects to be more structured and permanent, more like "sessions" in a DAW. Each project has a directory/folder on the file system where it puts audio files, parameter settings, preferences, etc. Then Mobius has a "Recent Projects..." menu item where you can load them. Project directories are self contained and can be copied to other machines without corrupting the file paths that you can't do with current projects. Once you have a project loaded, you just "Save Project" from the menu without having to interact with a file browser since it remembers where it came from.

With that, what is now called the Track Setup goes away, and instead you have projects and "project templates" like other applications. A project template is just a bunch of configuration settings without any audio content.

This makes me do better file management for loop content, and once that happens, it makes drag and drop easier since every loop has a known file location.