Simple Looper function with Ampero Control Midi Pedal

jeff

Okay, let's start by trying out a new thing: The Script Library.

I'll be building out a library of downloadable script files hosted on Github. It's not my favorite site for hosting files for non-programmers, but it's easy for me to use and does the job for now. If you are not familar with Github, it can seem a little intimidating at first. The link I'm providing below will take you to whare the file is, you will see it in the browser, but you need to manually download it to your computer. To do that find that line that starts with "Code" and "Blame". Follow that line to the right until you see "Raw" followed by two icons. The second icon is the download button. Click it. It will download the file to your standard download folder.

Now that the file is dowloaded you need to import it into the Mobius environment. Bring up Mobius and select the Scripts menu item Script Library. In the popup window click the Files tab. At the bottom of the window click the Import button. In the file browser navigate to your downloads directory and select the file recoverplay.msl.

Now you create a binding to the script, use the Edit Bindings window in the same way as you would for a built-in function. Just select the Scripts item in the tree and the name "Rec/Over/Play" should appear in the list.

Let us know how that goes, and we can move on to your other points.

Here is the download link:

https://github.com/mobius-looper/scripts/blob/main/recoverplay.msl

SchrodingersCat

SchrodingersCat Oops! There's a typo in the link I posted. It should have been
https://www.manua.ls/hotone/ampero-control/manual?p=5

jeff

SchrodingersCat Yes, If you're only seeing this one message when you press the footswitch, it is not sending CC 0 when you release the switch. You need to program it to do that.

windplayer

It does help; I just saw, with these Ampero settings (see SchrodingersCat-info), the cycle (Rec - Play - Overdub) seems to work. I will try it with the other Ampero commands. I have to read the info about the script in detail, jeff. Thanks so far. Would you recommend an AI for helping with Mobius 3. There are so many possibilities...

windplayer

Oh, I was happy to early. CC103 only switches between Record and Play, so I think, I really need some script help for the rec-play-overdub-etc. cycle. How can I get it? How can I use it? :-)

SchrodingersCat

windplayer See Jeff's post earlier for a link to the script and the instructions for installing it in Mobius.

windplayer

Yes, I see and I will try with these instructions.

windplayer

"At the bottom of the window click the Import button. In the file browser navigate to your downloads directory and select the file recoverplay.msl."

When doing this, there is an error-message:
"Failed to copy file: C:\Users...\Downloads\recoverplay.msl
0 scripts loaded"

windplayer

I moved a step forward. I put the text of jeffs script in a new script. Then I could use it.
Now, the cycle rec-overdub-play works.

Thanks so far!

One thing is strange. I can not hear me playing; I only hear a sound when the recorded loop is playing again, so I have to play "blind". Is there a possibility to get the "monitor-sound" when recording?

Then, there are only a few questions left:
Pedal 2: CC104 - Undo (last recorded overdub)
Pedal 3: CC105 - Stop / Play again from the start (When it plays again, further overdubs with Pedal 1 should be possible)
Pedal 4: CC106 - Reset all

Are scripts needed for that?

If it is possible, I would also like to use Pedals for a 2nd command, for exemple, with "hold"
For exemple on Midi-Channel 2: Pedal 13: Hold -> CC105 -> Mute (at a 2nd press: loud again).

When this midi-setting work - I would like to loop sync to my DAW, Reaper, and use tempo variations of the loop according to the bpm set in Reaper. I do not know, if this needs also a script?

I begin to realize that Mobius is perhaps not that easy to understand, but very flexible. Great!

SchrodingersCat

windplayer To hear what you were playing as your record it you need to enable audio monitoring within Mobius. (For some set ups you wouldn't want this, e.g. if you are using a microphone to record an acoustic instrument or a voice, but I guess in your case your recording something that is plugged into an audio interface of some kind or you are using a MIDI instrument.) To enable Monitor Audio go to the Sessions menu, and select Edit Session ..., select the Globals tab from the window that opens and the navigate to Miscellany, Monitor Audio from the menu tree on the left. Finally click inside the tick box to the right of the Monitor Audio item and then Save. When you move on to using Mobius from within a DAW you might choose to do the monitoring within the DAW and set the Monitoring to off in Mobius, but if memory serves me correctly, I think you need to avoid having Monitoring on in both the track DAW track receiving the instrument signal and Mobius at the same time.

You don't need a script for the Pedal 2 behaviour. There is a built-in Undo function which you can bind to CC 104. (Look under Functions, Editing)

I'm not sure how to answer for Pedals 3 and 4.

For Pedal 3, my guess is you'll need a script. I'm assuming you want it to stop the loop if it's not already stopped, Start if it's currently stopped and do nothing if the loop is empty. How do you want it to behave if your have other Tracks which are playing or if you have a DAW supplying the tempo, do you want the loop to stay in synch or not?

Pedal 4. What do you mean by Reset all? Reset all the Tracks to empty or Reset Mobius back to the state it was in before you started the session? There's a GlobalReset function which does the latter I think.

For what it's worth, my personal recommendation is setting all the pedals up to use scripts anyway. In one of your earlier posts you mentioned you are potentially interested in adding additional additional "hold" behaviour to the pedals. This will require the use of scripts. If you start off with each pedal having a script you then just edit the script associated with the pedal as you build in the extra functionality and you don't have to keep binding functions or scripts to the pedals,

windplayer

"select the Globals tab from the window that opens and the navigate to Miscellany, Monitor Audio from the menu tree on the left."

Yes, that works this way. Thanks!!

"For Pedal 3, my guess is you'll need a script. I'm assuming you want it to stop the loop if it's not already stopped, Start if it's currently stopped and do nothing if the loop is empty. How do you want it to behave if your have other Tracks which are playing or if you have a DAW supplying the tempo, do you want the loop to stay in synch or not?"

At the moment, I only want to use one track (Track 1) - to keep it simple. :-) Yes, it would be fine, if the track/loop would be sync to the DAWs tempo. I will use the commands pause or mute. At the moment, the track/loop is not synced (I do not know how to set this in Mobius - How can I synchronize my Mobius-Loops and DAW-Tempo?).

"Pedal 4. What do you mean by Reset all? Reset all the Tracks to empty or Reset Mobius back to the state it was in before you started the session?"

I only want to reset the tracks! I found the command. It works.

I still not know why there is the error-massage when importing scripts. Do you know, what to do?
"Failed to copy file: C:\Users...\Downloads\name_of_script.msl
0 scripts loaded"
Now, I get this error every time when trying to import a script. :-(

So, these are two of the main questions being left. How to synchronize DAW and Möbius Loop and 2nd: How to avoid the error when importing a script?

SchrodingersCat

windplayer First step to synchronizing with the DAW would be to open Mobius as a plugin within your DAW. You mentioned Reaper earlier. How experienced are you with using this? Are you happy with how to use VST3 plugins?
If you are using only one instrument, the simplest approach is probably to add the Mobius plugin as an effect on the track for that instrument. If you have multiple instruments, then you may want to set up a dedicated track for Mobius and have the other instrument tracks route their output to the Mobius track. I think there are YouTube videos available that can help. In terms of the synchronization of Mobius to the DAW, if I remember correclty it's just a case of setting Sync Source to "Host". You will find this via Sessions, Edit Sessions... , clicking on the Default Parameters tab, and then selecting Greatest Hits.

SchrodingersCat

windplayer About the fail to copy error: Based on the "C:\Users ..." it looks like you are using Windows. I am wondering whether it's a file permission issue with where Mobius is trying to copy the scripts. When you select Scripts, Script Library and click on the Files tab what folder does it say your script is stored in? I think it should be something like "C:\Users<your user name>\AppData\Local\Circular Labs\Mobius\Scripts"

windplayer

I created a folder „user-scripts and presets“ in Mobius, so the location is:
C:\Users\EWI\AppData\Local\Circular Labs\Mobius\user-scripts and presets\xxx.msl
I did the script by putting the text into „new“, then „compile“ -> „save“.
After that I chose the script, and chose „import“. After that, there was the error message.
It is crazy that one time (within the rec-overdub-play script), this procedure worked (if I remember right). But now, there is this error message every time.
I tried to chose other save places (into Downloads or directly into the „Mobius“-folder, but there was no success.
I open Reaper in Administrator-modus; could this be a problem?

For a short helping with the DAW-sync, I would be also thankful. My wish is to record a loop with the metronome of the DAW (for exemple 4/4) beat, but not to fix it to a certain number of beats. When I have recorded the loop (or did some overdubs), I want to change the beat of Reaper (the DAW), so the speed of the loop will also change (the pitch shall not change!). Is this possible?

jeff

Hmm, I'll have to explore the conditions that could cause this error, but they are almost always file permission problems. What's weird is that importing a file and clicking Save in the script editor, do basically the same thing, they write a file to the Mobius configuration folder in c:\Users. This has to be writable since that's where sessions and everything else is saved.

That would then suggest the problem is reading from the Downloads folder which is also odd.

FWIW, it really isn't necessary to create your own folder to save files, everything under that path is considered user data and won't be lost on upgrades and you can just back up the entire thing. The "script library" is just a folder named "scripts" in there. You can also copy files directly into this folder rather than going through the import process in the UI. After restarting, anything in that folder becomes available for use. That's all Import does, it copies from one location (such as the c:\Users...\Downloads folder) into c:\Users...\Mobius\scripts.

jeff

For host sync recording, there are two options. You either record some number of beats as defined by the host transport or some number of bars. You can record any number of beats/bars but you can't record less than one beat. You can think of it as a form of quantization or delayed action, when you start Record it waits for the next Beat or Bar, then recording begins and goes on as long as you let it. When you end Record, it rounds off the loop so that it contains one full Beat or Bar at the end.

Most people use Bar sync. Beat sync is usually used if you want to record odd numbers of beats that don't match the host and the loop phases in and out relative to the host pattern.

Regarding changing tempo and changing loop length without pitch shift...no, you can't do what you want with audio loops. Once recorded, loops will not resize themselves to track the host. This is a variant of what most systems call "time stretch", it is a notoriously difficult problem to do in real-time without adding annoying audible artifacts.

windplayer

At first… Thanks for your patience!
There was no „scripts“-folder within the „Mobius“-folder... Yes, this was the problem. I have created a „scripts“-folder and put the scripts in it. Now, it works.

Considering the time stretch-function. I would like to use it for practicing. I would then have to record the Mobius loop (and overdub) in Reaper and use Reapers time stretch-function? Is this the best way? - I thought, there would be a time stretch function within Mobius itself - or am I wrong. Perhaps via script? - now, I know how to use it. ;-)

SchrodingersCat

windplayer I'm curious about how you are wanting to practice. What instrument are you using? Can you tell me a little more about what you are trying to achieve. In an earlier post you mentioned using Reaper to provide a metronome and recording a loop in Mobius. Is this to provide a "backing track" to play over when you practice or something more complex?

jeff

windplayer "There was no scripts folder". That's very strange, this may be a bug in the installer, it is supposed to always be there.

jeff

Yeah, if you're practicing with backing tracks and you want to time stretch those backing tracks, that is best done in Reaper or some other tool before you start so it can process the audio for the best audible result.

If you want to record a loop live in Mobius then time stretch that, you can't do that live. It would be a multi-step process. 1) record a loop in Mobius, 2) export loop to a file, 3) run time stretch algorithm on it, 4) import result back into Mobius or Reaper.

On-the-fly time stretch is just not something that is easy to do without specialized DSP hardware and/or expensive commercial algorithms. Mobius 2.x had rudimentary time stretch capabilities, but the algorithm didn't sound very good, and it added a huge amount of latency so in practice few people used it. Any form of pitch shifting is best done offline and imported rather than performed live.

What is closer to possible is time stretch of MIDI sequences. There you're just working with a few numbers rather than enormous blocks of audio samples. Mobius can do that to a degree with the "follow" options, but it won't follow host tempo yet.