Question about scripts and scripting

windplayer

Hello! I’ve been experimenting a bit with the Möbius Looper and I’m still really happy with it. In the meantime, a few questions have come up. Maybe you can help.
1. I’m surprised that there are so few scripts available in the program itself. Is there a special location for them, or do you have to import scripts manually somewhere? I’d be interested to know what scripts already exist.
2. Specifically, I’m looking for a script that reacts to MIDI signals in the following way: Stop (of playback or overdub) AND (at the same time) reset to the start of the loop. Then, on the next MIDI signal: Start (either with playback or overdub – whichever was selected before).
3. When assigning controllers, there’s also the option to select “Keyboard.” Can I assign numbers or shortcuts from the computer keyboard there? How does that work?

I’m looking forward to your answers. :-)

jeff

1) There were a fair number of older scripts back in the day, but I don't advertise those now because we're transitioning to a new scripting system in Mobius 3, and just getting started with that. On a fresh install there will be no scripts, if you don't have any from Mobius 2.x, we've been developing them on the fly here on the forum as need arises. In time I'll start gathering those in one place.

Part of the problem is that scripts tend to reflect personal preferences that aren't universal. There are a handful of exceptions like "Record/Play/Overdub on one button" that come up a lot, but most are unique. Even with the old library, they would be shared but then usually tweaked slightly. If we find something that almost everyone wants (a recent example was Stop) then I'll make that a built-in function so we don't need to use a script for it.

2) Let me think on this for a little, but I think we're pretty close. There is a Stop function that will stop and rewind to the beginning. Your complications seems to be the preservation of Overdub mode after the Stop. I'm not sure if it does that out-of-the-box, but if not then it's an easy script.

3) When you want to execute a Mobius function (Record, Overdub, Reset, etc.) you need to create a binding between that function and an external event. The most commonly used binding event is MIDI. From your description, you are probably looking at the Bindings window and see the tabs MIDI, Keyboard, and Host. Under the MIDI tab, you create binding for MIDI events like notes or CCs. Under the Keyboard tab you create bindings for keys on the computer keyboard. Bindings under the Host tab are less common, they are used to expose Mobius functions and parameters as VST/AU parameters which I won't go into detail about here.

I do most of my testing using Keyboard bindings, since I always have a keyboard in front of me. R for Record, O for Overdub, Left/Right Arrow to select tracks, etc.

windplayer

jeff I'm not sure if it does that out-of-the-box, but if not then it's an easy script.

Did you succeed in constructing the script? Considering the existing script („stop“), you have to press the pedal two times to stop and get it to start position and two times with another pedal to play again.

windplayer

Hello jeff, thanks for your answers - I refer to them.
1) Perhaps, you could integrate your „Top Ten“-scripts at a script library. But I understand the problem! :-)
2) Thanks, you will give it a try. If it is too complicated, it would also help, if Möbius would generally begin with „overdub-mode“ at the beginning after being stopped.
3) This works and is really a great function!

jeff

windplayer The Stop function will immediately (unless quantized) stop the loop playing, rewind it to the beginning and put it in a state of Pause. If you're having to press that twice then something is wrong.

First check to see if Stop is being quantized. From the Configuration menu select Function Behavior. Scroll the table down until you see Stop in the first column. Look to the right and see if the box is checked in the Quantized column. If it is, uncheck it. If quantization is enabled, it means that the Stop will be delayed until the next subcycle/cycle/loop boundary depending on what you have the Quantize parameter set to. For some functions, once they have been activated and quantized, pressing the trigger a second time will "escape" quantization and cause the function to happen immediately. This might explain why you have to press twice.

Play is never quantized, so if you're having to press twice there, it suggests something is wrong with the way MIDI is being passed around between the foot controller and Mobius.

windplayer

Hello Jeff, I just tested it. No matter if enabling or unchecking the quantization, it is necessary to press the pedal two times. (First pressing, it goes to the end of the loop, goes to the beginning and stops playing; Two pressings, the loop stops at a point and goes straight back to the beginning.) - You are right with the play function. You do have to only press it once, so it starts again playing.
If you could create a script which does the stop and go to beginning action with one pedal press and enables to start again with the loop action before (play or overdub), this would be very fine!

jeff

I'm confused, here is what I'm seeing...

Record a loop a few seconds long. Stop quantization is unchecked, there is no host or track sync involved, just a simple loop playing over and over. Press the Stop button, it stops, returns to the front and the display says Pause. If you press Stop again at this point, nothing happens since you're already at the beginning and paused. There is no difference between pressing Stop once and twice since the second time is ignored.

Let's start from there and tell me how your workflow differs from that.

Also, bring up the Help->MIDI Monitor window and press the MIDI pedal you have bound to the Stop function. Look at what is displayed in the monitor window. You should see a single note on/off (assuming you are using notes) each time you push the button, check for note doubling or any other unexpected MIDI commands being sent at the same time. You should see a message in the monitor window the instant you press and release the switch without any lag. Assuming you are running Mobius as a plugin, are you getting MIDI through the host or are you opening a MIDI input device directly in Mobius?

jeff

Some clarification about the words I use since it can be confusing...

A track can be in a number of "modes", for this example the most important ones are:

Reset - the loop is empty and is doing nothing
Record - the loop is being recorded for the first time
Play - the loop has finished recording and is playing over and over
Mute - the loop has content, and is moving, but no sound is heard
Pause - the loop has content, and is NOT moving, the play position freezes at some point within the loop, no sound is heard

The function named Stop is a variant of Pause. It freezes the playback head so no sound is heard, and you will not see the loop meters moving. The only difference between Stop and Pause is that Pause freezes in place, and Stop freezes and moves the playback head to the beginning. At the end of either Stop or Pause you are in Pause mode, waiting for something to restart the playback.

windplayer

I use Möbius as plugin in Reaper. When pressing the pedal attached to „stop“, there are two midi signals coming at the same time: „Host: CC 1 105 127“ and „Host: CC 1 105 0“. (The pedal is set to send „momentary“ command.)

jeff

That looks normal, the first is the "on" event (any CC value above zero) and the second is the off event. For Stop, the off event is ignored. Let me run some tests with CCs through the host and see what happens.

jeff

Going back to your example, when you press Stop a single time after a loop is recorded and playing, what do you see in the Mobius UI? The display should say Pause, nothing should be moving, and no sound should be heard. This should all happen immediately, if there is any sort of lag, then either it is being quantized or the routing through the host is interfering.

windplayer

When pressing the pedal, there is „Pause“ standing at the end of the loop. The cursor moves forward till the end of the loop and then stands at the beginning and stops. (Immediately, after pressing the pedal, there is no sound.) (I looked at the quantization setting of „stop“. It is not quantized.) Do you have another script (for „stop“ signal), I could test? So, I could see, if the „stop“-task does not work properly.

jeff

It is being quantized then. What you see in the UI is a "scheduled event" to perform the Stop, scheduled for the end of the loop. Hmm, the Function Properties checkboxes don't seem to be working for Stop. There are two things you can do, the first is to disable default quantization. This applies to all functions, not just Stop so you might not want to do that permanently, but you can try it to see if that resolves the issue. From the Session menu, select Edit Session. Click the Default Parameters tab, In the category tree select Greatest Hits. In the form on the right is a field labeled Quantize, use the popup selector to set this to Off.

Assuming that works, we can write a script to force quantization off before running stop

#name StopNow
variable saveQuant = quantize
quantize = :off
Stop
quantize = saveQuant

If you want to try that script, from the Scripts menu select Script Editor. Click New at the bottom. Copy and paste that text into the editor window, Then click Save. In the file save popup window, enter a valid file name like "stopnow"

Now create a binding to the new function named StopNow and use that instead of Stop. In the binding popup windows, scripts have their own category in the browser tree in the middle. Open the item named Scripts and you should see StopNow in the list.

jeff

This is a bug in the Function Properties settings, Stop should not be using the default Quantize parameter, it should always obey the checkbox in Function Properties.

windplayer

One step further. :-) With your script "stopnow", it stops at once and goes back to start. Now, I can say precisely what happens when starting again. It depends on if the previous Mode was overdub or play.
Play-Mode -> StopNow -> You have to press TWO times a pedal to start again (first press: title changes from track sync to overdub track sync master, 2nd press: title changes to track sync master -> Loop plays again
Overdub-Mode -> StopNow -> You have to press ONE time a pedal to start again (first press: title changes from overdub track sync master to track sync master -> Loop plays again
Perhaps you have an idea (like my suggestion at the beginning) to change the script, so it keeps the previous mode when stopping (play or overdub). So, it would be possible to press only one time the pedal to start again. There would be a 2nd advantage: If you want to overdub directly from start, you could plan this by having the mode in overdub-position before using "stopnow". So you could start directly in overdub-mode when pressing the other pedal. Is this possible?

jeff

I'm not quite sure I follow this, but let me explain a few things about how the built-in functions work before we dive back in to scripts.

Stop - this has the quantization problem we've been talking about so we'll keep using the StopNow script instead

Overdub - this is a "toggle" function, it turns overdub on and off. Once turned on, it usually but not always stays on after other mode changes, for example you can go in and out of Mute mode and Overdub will be where it was when you started Mute.

Play - this is the universal "cancel everything I am doing and return the loop to just simple playback". It is a bit different than Play on a tapedeck because it WILL cancel Overdub mode if it is on. It will also get you out of Replace, Multiply, Loop Switch, or any other events you might have scheduled.

Pause - this is also a toggle function, it will pause the loop if it is moving, and resume the loop if it is paused

Once you have entered Pause mode after using Pause, Stop, or the StopNow script, you need a way to resume the loop playing. Pause will do that. Play will do that, but it will also cancel Overdub mode. There is also the Start function which will restart the loop from the beginning but will leave Overdub alone. Since you are already at the beginning when using Stop, then Start and Pause will behave the same way.

"Play-Mode -> StopNow -> You have to press TWO times a pedal to start again (first press: title changes from track sync to overdub track sync master, 2nd press: title changes to track sync master -> Loop plays again
Overdub-Mode -> StopNow -> You have to press ONE time a pedal to start again (first press: title changes from overdub track sync master to track sync master -> Loop plays again"

Are you describing what you ARE seeing, or is this the way you WANT it to behave?

If this is what you are seeing, what function are you using after StopNow? If it is Start, I don't see this at all.

If this is what you want to happen, then we can script it. But I'm not sure you need that. Use Start instead of Play, and I assume you already have Overdub assigned to a different switch so you can turn that on and off independently without needing a double-tap script.

windplayer

„Are you describing what you ARE seeing, or is this the way you WANT it to behave?“

No, I do not want this!

I want to touch the pedals only once. I will work handfree and have a pedal with four switches.
1 . Start-rec-play-overdub script

Clear last overdub
stopnow
reset all
After Stopnow, I want to press the 1st pedal to assume his previous action.

windplayer

(I think, I could put the „reset“ to a letter on the keyboard. It would be fine to have the option to start with „overdub“ from the beginning; I thought, the script „start-rec-play-overdub“ could do this, if the stopnow-command stops with the previous state of the loop - play or overdub)

windplayer

Hi Jeff,
I realized that my last message might not have been very clear.
Let me try again...
Current pedal assignments:
• Pedal 1: Rec/Over/Play (Script)
• Pedal 2: Undo
• Pedal 3: StopNow (formerly: Stop)
• (Pedal 4: Reset)
My goal is to be able to control the essential looping functions hands-free (Pedals 1–3).
The ideal behavior would be as follows:
• Pedal 1 → PLAY function → Pedal 3 → StopNow → Pedal 1 → starts PLAY from the beginning
• Pedal 1 → OVERDUB function → Pedal 3 → StopNow → Pedal 1 → starts OVERDUB from the beginning
(If that can't be implemented, then alternatively it would be better if, after StopNow, Pedal 1 would always trigger the Overdub function first.)

jeff

Oh! You're using Rec/Over/Play, that explains some things. I think I see what you want, a variant of Rec/Over/Play that keeps Overdub on after Stop. If you are using the StopNow script for pedal 3, then I think simply changing Rec/OverPlay on pedal 1 to use Start instead of Play will do that. There are a few versions of Rec/Over/Play on the forums, post the one you are using and I'll modify it.